Suspect TSWW aircraft combat values
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April 18, 2021 at 3:00 pm #3572BobD62Participant
I only discovered TSWW two weeks ago, and am now the proud owner of Hakkaa Päälle. The game looks fantastic and I am looking forward to digging into the rules and playing.
I really appreciate the amount of research and work that has gone into this series and have been looking at Blitzkrieg II and Barbarossa. I am especially interested in the early years of WW2 and, when I discover a game on that period, I like to look into the details of the air units in particular, and even more so into my favourite pieces – those representing the Italian Regia Aeronautica. And here I think I have found a problem: the Fiat Cr42 numbers are very wrong, and look like they have just been copied from the earlier Cr32. So I have been doing some basic analysis.
All of the early war aircraft I am looking at have essentially the same firepower: either two 12.7mm or four 7.62mm MGs which, in every air warfare game I have seen, are rated as equivalent. The primary difference then is raw speed, although account should be taken of manoeuvrability, ruggedness and the availability of radios (less of a problem with these planes).
Looking at the earlier model of Fiat, the Cr32 was used extensively in Spain and should be roughly on a par with the Soviet Polikarpov I-15 (speed of both 220-230 mph), which it is in the game (attack/defence factors 2/3), so I will assume that as a reasonable base.
The Polish P-7 could only manage about 200 mph and had a lighter armament, and is also rated as 2/3 in the game: what is the rationale behind that (rather than rating it a 2/2, for instance)?
The next step up should be the I-153 (264 mph), Gladiator (253) and Avia B534 (252). The I-153 is rated 3/3 in the game, and the Gladiator and B534 both 3/4. The I-153 was a bit fragile, I believe, so ok. The Polish PZL P-11 is a bit slower and is also rated 3/3, which seems about right.
Max speed of the Fiat Cr42 was 274 mph, and was commented on (by the Brits who flew against it) as being extremely manoeuvrable and as having a strong air frame, and as being marginally superior to the Gladiator (though I cannot remember where I read that) … and yet in TSWW it is rated 2/3, which seems very wrong. Indeed, it has 0-0 bombing values and 9 range, which is identical to the Cr32 (although the image is correct in both cases). Even the Ju 87b Stuka – vulnerable, slower, weaker armament, and not a fighter – is rated higher than the Cr42. Surely not! Would I be correct in thinking that this is a typo on the counters? If so, that unfortunately occurs in all of the TSWW modules I have seen (as the aircraft was used by many nations).
The Fiat G50 (290 mph) is rated 4/3, the Mc200 (313) is rated 5/4, as is the Dutch Fokker D-XXI (also 290 mph). The Finns worked miracles with the aircraft that they had, but (if I remember correctly) they did not rate the D-XXI, and they were the nation that got the most use of of it; they kept using the G50 in preference, so I am curious to know how their relative values are arrived at (I would have made them both 4/4). The Cr42 should have the same stats as the Gladiator, at least, so should either be a 3/4 or (at most) a 4/4 like the G50.
My last nitpick is the PZL P-24, which was used by the Greeks and Romanians, amongst others. This was simply an export version of the P-11 (correctly rated 3/3), albeit with a very marginally superior engine. From what I have read the Greeks found that it was no match even for the Italian G50 and MC200, and yet is rated 5/4 in the game, which seems very odd. Could somebody please explain how that rating was arrived at? I would have put it at 3/3 or (maybe) 4/3 to allow for the slightly better engine.
The Fiat Cr42 notwithstanding, as that has to be an error, I’d be grateful to understand how some of these ratings were arrived at so that I can better appreciate the game. And the Italians need all the help they can get, so seriously underrating one of their principal fighters is a big issue for them!
Thanks and best regards
- This topic was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by BobD62.
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